The Coalition Government (or same old tories?)

[lumberjack]

So what do you think of the show so far?

I was personally hoping the Lib-Dems would reign in the tory cuts but it seems not. The planned expansion of free school meals is not going ahead. Child trust funds are to be axed. Post-compulsory education is in for trouble come the autumn too. The rumours are Surestart will be next on the list. Surely there is more to come.

And was it not David Cameron who called Gordon Brown 'weak' for not stepping in to sort out the BA row some months ago?

And I am sure Boris Johnson said all of London's foxes should be culled??

So, after intially feeling not so bad about it. I feel a lot worse.

[bazzer]

Post Election Blue,s there lumberjack , it will get worse before it get,s better
There is alway,s a way .......It,s finding it that,s the problem

[Begbie]

David Cameron has justified making deeper cuts than he stated before the election by claiming that things are worse than he thought. ie Interest payments will be £70 billion by 2014/15.

The figures to calculate this were available in the budget red book for months. It seems that nobody in the Tory party can do simple sums.

See this blog by Edmund Conway of the Telegraph, a pro-Tory newspaper group. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance...an-we-thought/

Quote:

Yes the Budget deficit is dire, but the Prime Minister is being disingenuous at best in claiming that it is “worse than we thought”, as he has done in Milton Keynes today. If anything, it is actually a bit better than previously thought.

Quote:

Now, if this really is news to the Prime Minister, I am quite dumbfounded.

New politics? New liar, more-like.

[accieturk]

i said prior .during and just after the election that the UK was in a economical mess of dire proportions, it has higher debts than greece and you have all saw the problems there
We are not alone in facing massive cuts as i said before the Irish Republic is facing massive cuts in education.health .benefits and public sector jobs and wage cuts that make what has been annoniunced in UK so far look like nothing , Spain and Italy have announced cuts right across the board in public spending jobs /wages and more countries will follow

the truth of the matter is and has been well known for a while the developed western countries have been living above their means for around 6 to 8 years running higher deficits each year and borrowing more each year , finally all or most of them have reached a point where it is time to balance the books , it wont be easy , it will be painfull , but not as much as doing nothing would be

who ever won the election would have to have made massive cuts ,the only difference was if it was done quickly or over a 3 or 4 year period
either way we all would have cuts made in ways that would affect all of us but then most of us have benefited from the things that led to the deficit in the first place

[Begbie]

I'm not saying that we aren't in a mess and need cuts but for Cameron to say that things are worse than he thought is a bare-faced lie.

Greece's debt has vastly different repayment terms than the UK's debt so a comparison isn't really possible.

The UK has time to make the cuts at a slower rate, keeping people in work and off benefits, stopping demand for goods and services slumping and avoiding the double-dip in the economy which now appears to be on the way.

[accieturk]

i tend to agree that it is hard to acept that the leader of the opposition would not have been given accurate figures of the fiscal deficit when requested so he shouldnt have been surprised in any way unless info gave was inaccurate
yes Greece do have worse rates for repayment but it is worth noting that the UKs rating was reduced at the begining of this week ,that will leed to higher rates on any future borrowings

i hear the we have time to repay and can make only small cuts here and there a lot , if we could affoard to continue at the current rate of spending then we wouldnt be in debt to start with
the uk has its highest ever real term peace debt rate the level of anual deficit cant go on the country would end up bust
I as much as anyone dont want to see anyone loose their job neither do i welcome the freeze and cuts on benefits ,or the cuts in education.health etc etc but what we have to come to terms with is the fact that a lot of what was done over last 10 years in creating some of the public sector jobs etc was done with not only money we didnt have but money we really couldnt affoard to be repaying over a long time period if at all
most of the developed European economies all fell under the same mistake of hoping that by artificially creating jobs would cause a large spending in the consumer market creating sustainable jobs and increase in tax revenues that it appears is a plan that has failled and every developed country is now facing large unsustainable national debts and deficits which can only be corrected by cutting spending
there was 2 ideas for dealing with it 1 was to slowly reduce it and its affects over 5 years but in the long term that option would actually mean larger cuts to cover the outstanding costs while debts were serviced over a longer period
or option 2 cut spending as quickly as possiable therefor reducing costs

you are right though the cuts will lead to drops in revenue as sadly people will see either wage cuts or job losses
that would be the case under either option though and as you say (as i pointed out in may) the double dip recession is almost certain now , not as a result of any cuts but another reason for the need of action

[lumberjack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazzer

Post Election Blue,s there lumberjack , it will get worse before it get,s better
There is alway,s a way .......It,s finding it that,s the problem

How did you guess?

I have thought from day one (of his leadership) that Cameron would be economical with the truth. We're going to see a new level of 'spin' while he clings on to power with his new mate Nick.

As for the cuts, we all knew it would happen. I think the timing is one issue, as is WHERE they come from. At the moment it all seems to be things that will hit ordinary people hard.

So if we adopt a spin docs approach, I guess they're waiting for us dropping out the world cup to announce something like a 90% tax rate for billionaires

Has anyone had conversations with Lib-Dem voters? The ones I have spoke to are mostly disgusted that their vote put Cameron in no.10. The new Labour leader has an opportunity to appeal to these people.

Watch this space......

[accieturk]

it is a sad fact that as always most cuts affect the poorest the hardest ,normally because we have little or nothing in reserve to help cushion the blow

a hard hit on business tax wise would be bad as would strangle any hope of growth at all

the extremely wealthy if hit hard would do as they did when the uk had a 80% taxrate basically leave for lower taxing countries taking not only what tax they pay but also their business interests with them
40 or 50% of £ 5m better than 70% of sod all and another company moved to the far east etc

it is also worth noting that the outgoing govt also had started making cuts for example the grant to local authorities was slashed by around 40% in last budget ,that has had a effect on many facilities and jobs funded by councils throughout the country

[Begbie]

I think that we're being softened up for cuts in areas that were supposed to be 'ring fenced'.

What's the odds that the UK public's percentage of bank ownership is sold off too early and our friends in the city make another killing in speculation, including the blind trusts who are running Tory MPs' business affairs whilst they are in office.

[accieturk]

i would be glad to see the govts interests in the banks sold off as long as the return was at least that outlayed in first place
i doubt though that there would be a rush to snap up any issue in the banking sector in the near future especially as the govt holdings are in the high risk loss leading area of the banks tken into public part ownership
the traders would make money from any re sell not sure the big institutes would want to go anywhere near it though , it was the banks and their high risk exposure and mis management that triggered the last lot of financial problems off hence the reason a few needed propped up or partly taken over by govt in the first place
on a similar vein if things continue with the US approach towards BP either it will go down (costing many jobs and lost revenue) or govt intervention may be needed there

[Begbie]

The main problem with BP is that a lot of pension funds have invested in them. A dropping share price will hit more than the BP workforce. To be honest, I don't know if BP actually employs a lot of people in the UK. Most of their income derives from overseas.

BP hired an American firm to operate the rig that is spilling oil, supposedly the world's leading specialists. They seem to be getting off pretty lightly in the aftermath. It's common practice to hire-in a rig operator.

Example:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7140797.ece

[accieturk]

yes a lot of pension funds have taken a big hit over the last 2 days as BP has plummeted it will affect a lot of people both in initial payout and monthly pension payments in the future

BP headquarters as well as 3 or 4 of its research centers are all based in the uk i dont have the numbers to hand but would estimate they employ 10,000 plus in the uk if you take into account their subsiduary companies as well

yes common practice for off shore sub contractors to be used in maintenance and exploratory by many oil/gas companies these days strangely more cost effective , and yes given they running things some of the flak should be aimed in their direction in my opinion too but then it wouldnt go down well if US president was attacking a US company in the way he has a British one in the USA

[imperial109]

Quote:

Originally Posted by accieturk

yes common practice for off shore sub contractors to be used in maintenance and exploratory by many oil/gas companies these days strangely more cost effective , and yes given they running things some of the flak should be aimed in their direction in my opinion too but then it wouldnt go down well if US president was attacking a US company in the way he has a British one in the USA

An inconvenient truth eh?

Don't think BP will go under, but they will take a heavy hit. But the thing with oil though is if BP get themselves another big oil well the share prices will soon go back up again, if heads don't roll first. Also think Cameron is supposed to be meeting Obama about the situation. Hopefully something along the lines of "Constant criticising isn't going to help improve matters so shut the fuck up" but I doubt that will be said.

As for the cuts, yes we all knew that cuts was going to happen but I would have much rather had an easing in period rather than the sudden deep cuts that Con/Libs are planning. Easing us into it would give the poorer off more time to get used to it rather than a shock into finding extra income quickly.

My father was on the local (labour) council and bumped into the local Lib Dem, fair to say that the guy was a bit sheepish about the way the Lib Dem party conducted themselves. Especially when they was leafleting round all the Lib/con marginals asking labour voters to vote lib dem to keep the tories out.

[Begbie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by accieturk

yes common practice for off shore sub contractors to be used in maintenance and exploratory by many oil/gas companies these days strangely more cost effective , and yes given they running things some of the flak should be aimed in their direction in my opinion too but then it wouldnt go down well if US president was attacking a US company in the way he has a British one in the USA

.... nothing to do with mid-term elections in the US in November of course.

Sorry. I'm an old cynic.

[accieturk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Begbie

.... nothing to do with mid-term elections in the US in November of course.

Sorry. I'm an old cynic.

makes 2 of us then

[Red-Hand-Devil]

Supprised that little cunt fuckwitt sharky aint pipped up in this thread and spouted his normal ill informed bollox like he normally does . I guess he,s been out on the pull again and got caught outside the school gates.

[Raff67]

[Begbie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red-Hand-Devil

Supprised that little cunt fuckwitt sharky aint pipped up in this thread and spouted his normal ill informed bollox like he normally does . I guess he,s been out on the pull again and got caught outside the school gates.

That's the only sensible thread on FSi fuckt then.

[stenelly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red-Hand-Devil

Supprised that little cunt fuckwitt sharky aint pipped up in this thread and spouted his normal ill informed bollox like he normally does . I guess he,s been out on the pull again and got caught outside the school gates.

i think you'll find sharky's not tall enough to see over the school gates yet, but that doesn't stop him sitting upstairs on a bus as it passes

[Raff67]

It's not hard to spot the new username....Am guessing some green chunt.