Arsenal 2010/2011 - Page 3

**glenman** · #41 13-12-2010, 10:50 PM

What a load of shit, only plus point being Chesney Hawkes might be given a run in the team-beaten by a lucky/fluke goal and one great save-well done. Sagna-tried hard, Clichy-gives every winger acres of space-at fault for the goal, centre backs-ok, Wilshere has looked tired for weeks, Song remembered his job tonight but too slow at this level, Nasri-not in the game, Arshavin-lazy cunt, Rosicky-done, Chamakh-not at the races, RVP-didn't get going, Fabregas-fuck off and Walcott back to his shite self. Time for a clear out both on and off the pitch-get TA or Keown to train the defence and ??????

**Begbie** · #42 13-12-2010, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenman

What a load of shit, only plus point being Chesney Hawkes might be given a run in the team-beaten by a lucky/fluke goal and one great save-well done. Sagna-tried hard, Clichy-gives every winger acres of space-at fault for the goal, centre backs-ok, Wilshere has looked tired for weeks, Song remembered his job tonight but too slow at this level, Nasri-not in the game, Arshavin-lazy cunt, Rosicky-done, Chamakh-not at the races, RVP-didn't get going, Fabregas-fuck off and Walcott back to his shite self. Time for a clear out both on and off the pitch-get TA or Keown to train the defence and ??????

Tough but fair.

The players seem to think that the fans will believe it's OK to play keepie-ball with lesser teams. <-- They can do that all day.
They fail to realise that most Arsenal supporters expect a bit of back-bone and 'killer-instinct' from their team.

As you all know, I'm not an Arse-lover so am probably talking out of turn, but there you go.

**imperial109** · #43 14-12-2010, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Begbie

Tough but fair.

The players seem to think that the fans will believe it's OK to play keepie-ball with lesser teams. <-- They can do that all day.
They fail to realise that most Arsenal supporters expect a bit of back-bone and 'killer-instinct' from their team.

As you all know, I'm not an Arse-lover so am probably talking out of turn, but there you go.

I think you have pretty much nailed it there Begs to be honest. Its all well and good playing well against the lesser teams but if we can't turn up to battle out a game against the rest of the top 4 then we will always struggle to win anything. The best chance of winning a trophy has emerged from Man U and Chelsea already being knocked out of the league cup. If they were still in it then I wouldn't be too confident on winning anything again this season.

We still haven't had a decent spine in the team since the likes of Vieira. Song seems a solid enough player but I honestly don't believe that he is the quality article that is needed in a championship winning team. The same could be said of a few more Arsenal regulars, Clichy, Denilson, Squllaci, Bendtner just to name a few. But one thing I guarantee is that Wenger will do sod all about it again. He will give us exactly the same excuse that the players are learning. The real fact is that they aren't. Clichy has been there long enough now that he should know what he is doing but makes mistakes after mistakes.

Another year on and Arsenal fans are saying we need the exact same sort of players we have needed for the last 3-4 years but Wenger stubbornness in believing in youth is starting to piss me off a bit now. We DO need a quality CB as well as a world class holding midfielder and goalkeeper, and now that the excuse of us being skint is seemingly out the window it will be interesting to hear Wenger's excuse for not getting the players we desperately need in January.

**Tats** · #44 14-12-2010, 12:53 AM

Think wengers clutching at straws saying the pitch wasnt good enough

**loopylegend** · #45 14-12-2010, 01:31 AM

Appreciate your honesty when asessing your team's past, present + future. To be honest, as a supporter of another side, i think the problem lies with your manager not the players? Ive never been a great fan of Wenger anyway, but in his early years at Arsenal could still appreciate the difference he made to the team. Personally i think he has run out of ideas and is looking increasingly more + more frustrated at his ability not to produce the consistency in his team that he craves. On their day Arsenal are capable of beating the best. But you have got to be consistent week in week out to win the Premiership. Same applies to the CL... but to win it you got to have that cutting edge at the end to finish the job!!!! Looking at his overall record at the club even the most die-hard Gunners fans must surely be thinking that with the resources that have been made available to him HE SHOULD HAVE ACHIEVED A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN HE HAS??? You may agree/disagree but sometimes its easier looking at a team's situation from the outside, if you know what i mean? Regards Loopylegend..

**glenman** · #46 14-12-2010, 02:07 AM

That is the problem-he has always had to balance the books, little to spend.

**wakka839** · #47 14-12-2010, 04:54 AM

Except that the team was dreadful in middle of the park, we werent overawed or under pressure for huge parts of the game, unlucky with the goal conceded, and unlucky with chamakh not equalising.

The main part i think that was missing was the pass and movement of the midfield, glenman says he wants song to stay back at all times, i'd prefer him to pass sideways and run forward into a bit of space for a few give and goes, wilshere didnt have a clue, and has no end product at all. Rosicky was decent.

After all the talk about arsenal defensively over the years, i think wenger has actually done something about it, great to see Koscielny actually win headers against rooney compared to toure and gallas, and when vermaelen is back and fit, i think it'll be a very good partnership.

Good to see fabregas back, couldnt pass for crap today (like all other games he has played this season) but when he is fit and had a run of games, i think he will be the real difference, probably wont offer as much goals as nasri but he will be the main cog in the engine room.

As for the pitch i thought it was pretty bad with the amount of players slipping around the place, dont know if you could blame it for bad passing though.

If nothing else the game showed that we werent dominated, or humiliated, and overall i think the game was pretty even, undone by a fluke/freak goal. It showed though that arrsenal are just as good as United at this moment in time, and title race definitely not over.

**deadlywill** · #48 14-12-2010, 07:59 AM

new goalie did well though - i'd be keeping him on the field instead of Almunia...

**imperial109** · #49 14-12-2010, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakka839

The main part i think that was missing was the pass and movement of the midfield, glenman says he wants song to stay back at all times, i'd prefer him to pass sideways and run forward into a bit of space for a few give and goes, wilshere didnt have a clue, and has no end product at all. Rosicky was decent.

Thats not what you want from you holding midfielder. If you look back to the unbeaten season Gilberto Silva wasn't bombing forward trying to score goals. He was sitting in there, protecting the back four, DOING HIS JOB.

At times Song seems to think that he is the next Bergkamp, he's not. With the likes of Squllaci and Clichy in the back four Song needs to stay back and stop them looking vulnerable.

Yeah Tats I heard that excuse and had to laugh, why can't he just come out and say that we wasn't good enough in the final third, instead he is blaming something that both sets of players had to deal with. If I was paying someone �40+k a week I would expect them to manage to pass through treacle. When he says things like that it just makes him sound stupid.

Loopylegend, I posted on here a couple of years ago having a monster rant against Wenger. I honestly believe either Wenger has run out of ideas or has become so untouchable in the club that he has became complacent. We have heard from him last season saying that if we won nothing last year then his experiment in youth has failed and he will need to change his thinking to win things. The only difference I have noticed is that we are taking the League Cup more seriously........that's it. We still have weaknesses all over the pitch with next to nothing being done about it. The club has a lot of dead wood within the squad but Wenger will not do anything about this season or any season in the future because it would make him look stupid after bigging these players up when they was young but then failed to make the grade so he keeps putting them in, hoping that they pull their fingers out. The club has money to spend, but he won't spend it. We have had chances to bring in some real quality players but his unwillingness to spend that little bit extra has cost us on the pitch.

**Harry Hotspur** · #50 14-12-2010, 01:28 PM

Maybe a bit of extra training on this before playing at Old trafford again...

**snappie** · #51 14-12-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Hotspur

Maybe a bit of extra training on this before playing at Old trafford again...

Let's just call this your new stadium, and leave it that.

**Begbie** · #52 14-12-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappie

Let's just call this your new stadium, and leave it that.

Ouch!

Very good.

**wakka839** · #53 14-12-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imperial109

Thats not what you want from you holding midfielder. If you look back to the unbeaten season Gilberto Silva wasn't bombing forward trying to score goals. He was sitting in there, protecting the back four, DOING HIS JOB.

At times Song seems to think that he is the next Bergkamp, he's not. With the likes of Squllaci and Clichy in the back four Song needs to stay back and stop them looking vulnerable.

I'm pretty sure i remember Gilberto scoring a right few goals in his first couple of seasons from ghosting into the box, but thats irrelevant. If the opposition dont have the ball then they cant score, which i would like to see the midfield trio linking up more with passing and moving, last night was screaming out for it, i'm not saying every midfielder should go gung ho into the opposition box, but surely asking a midfielder to just sit and pass sideways and not offer himself when free and space to do so is a waste of a position, (especially when United only played with one upfront, and i thought Squillaci and Koscielny both had him well under control, how much do we need to be scared of United that we would have 3 players marking one man?). I'm of the belief midfielders should attack and defend, and should work as a unit attacking together and defending together. Song has proven he can do this in earlier games in the season with some vital goals.

As for wenger, i think he is doing an outstanding job, some things havent paid off and he knows more than anyone else what they are, he doesnt need to go out and slag of his team or his decisions. Maybe he has been reluctant to spend money, maybe there hasnt been money available, but i think he has done brilliantly either way, rather have an 8 million adebayor than a 30 million berbatov, however much Wenger has to spend i dont think the type of funds to pay 20 million for Aqualani or 30 million for the likes of berbatov are available, obviously wenger looked at them players and decided the risk v money scenario just wasnt worth it, and i agree with him totally.

So you want to sack him? Who would replace him? The chances are that we could end up like liverpool or worse, Wenger has kept the club fighting and finished in the top 4 for as long as i can remember, and last season he took it until the last couple of weeks, and was top of the premier league until last night. Also he has qualified from the group stage of the champions league for 11 seasons in a row, not even Man Utd, Chelsea or Barcelona have done that, Arsenal under Wenger has always produced consistant quality. The man is an absolute legend, If you dont like the manager the players or the philosophy then maybe the club isnt for you to support.

**glenman** · #54 14-12-2010, 04:47 PM

I don't think we will ever know the truth of whether Wenger has money t spend or not-I believe not. I read a quote a couple of years ago where he said he has to bring in a surplus on transfers every year. I expected us to lose by more last night and the reason we didn't was that Song stayed put, shielding the back four-think back to the last lot of times we have played Utd/Chelski-lots of possession in the attacking third of the field then its in our net. I thought the centre backs did ok yesterday and mayne if TV5 ever returns we may see a good partnership develop, if Kieran Gibbs wasn't made of balsa wood I hope he would be our left back by now as Clichy has become a joke, Sagna is still solid but can't cross. The front six that we play with are too slow, we pass like Barcelona but at half the pace and they don't work as hard as Barca players do to stop the other teams building. We need a major overhaul that doesn't appear to be coming. Made a note in my diary last night, simply said-bugger.

**Tats** · #55 14-12-2010, 05:01 PM

Has Walcot been injured or has he simply just not been picked ?

**snappie** · #56 14-12-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tats

Has Walcot been injured or has he simply just not been picked ?

I think he's just not been picked. He got over his ankle injury.

**imperial109** · #57 14-12-2010, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakka839

So you want to sack him? Who would replace him? The chances are that we could end up like liverpool or worse, Wenger has kept the club fighting and finished in the top 4 for as long as i can remember, and last season he took it until the last couple of weeks, and was top of the premier league until last night. Also he has qualified from the group stage of the champions league for 11 seasons in a row, not even Man Utd, Chelsea or Barcelona have done that, Arsenal under Wenger has always produced consistant quality. The man is an absolute legend, If you dont like the manager the players or the philosophy then maybe the club isnt for you to support.

I never said sack him, just said he seems to have run out of ideas. Maybe its time for Pat Rice or Boro Primorac to leave the club. We have had the same ideas running around the club for the last 15 years and they just seem to be going stagnant. A new assistant manager to put in some different ideas and a fresh approach to things rather than trying the same plans which the likes of Man Utd and Chelsea have sussed out ages ago.

I agree with Glenman, that we need an over haul of the playing staff. The likes of Bendtner and Vela bring nothing extra to the team which Chamakh or RvP doesn't already gives us. Sagna, to be honest I don't mind, he's no Lauren but probably the best RB we have had since him. Kosceilny and Vermaelen are quality but Squllaci scares the fecking life out me at times, as can Clichy. If you watch Drogba, next time we play then, you will see him latch onto Clichy because he knows that he has the beating of him. Arshavin is at a crucial season if you ask me, too many times he fades in and out of games and I think he really needs to stamp some sort of authority on the game. Yes he has put in some assists but its his general work rate that bugs me. Rosicky, I think we haven't seen the best of him and I very much doubt that we will. We have potential with Wilshire and Ramsey, just hope Ramsey will be mentally alright and not fade like Eduardo did. Walcott's long term is a forward so hopefully we will see him in a more forward role this season.

**wakka839** · #58 14-12-2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imperial109

I never said sack him, just said he seems to have run out of ideas. Maybe its time for Pat Rice or Boro Primorac to leave the club. We have had the same ideas running around the club for the last 15 years and they just seem to be going stagnant. A new assistant manager to put in some different ideas and a fresh approach to things rather than trying the same plans which the likes of Man Utd and Chelsea have sussed out ages ago.

I agree with Glenman, that we need an over haul of the playing staff. The likes of Bendtner and Vela bring nothing extra to the team which Chamakh or RvP doesn't already gives us. Sagna, to be honest I don't mind, he's no Lauren but probably the best RB we have had since him. Kosceilny and Vermaelen are quality but Squllaci scares the fecking life out me at times, as can Clichy. If you watch Drogba, next time we play then, you will see him latch onto Clichy because he knows that he has the beating of him. Arshavin is at a crucial season if you ask me, too many times he fades in and out of games and I think he really needs to stamp some sort of authority on the game. Yes he has put in some assists but its his general work rate that bugs me. Rosicky, I think we haven't seen the best of him and I very much doubt that we will. We have potential with Wilshire and Ramsey, just hope Ramsey will be mentally alright and not fade like Eduardo did. Walcott's long term is a forward so hopefully we will see him in a more forward role this season.

Very good post, changing assistant or coaching staff is a prospect that never occured to me, i agree with everything you said. Walcott has me worried though that he just isnt good enough or going to get any better, seems to just not want to get involved in games on the right wing and hugs touchline, dont know if moving him upfront would benefit him or the team anymore, can still see him being crowded out and not being seen for bout 60 minutes of a match, hopefully he will get better though.

**ruudboy** · #59 14-12-2010, 08:39 PM

Imperial has given me food for thought. In fact I have had a rethink about the comments I made regarding Wenger leaving. I have always held him in the highest regard in terms of his ability. He might be a megalomaniac but so is Fergie, Jose and any other really successful manager. Maybe it's a prerequisite to be sucessful in that sort of job.

Imperial makes a great point. It should have occurred to me. Fergie has had a number of assistants. He has not always instigated the change by the way, Mclaren left for a job as did queiroz (twice) Walter Smith was there for a very brief period, but I bet Fergie benefited from his insight.

Maybe Wenger does need some new faces around him. Maybe a former player or two who has retired. United were clever enough to involve Brian Mcclair, Solskjaer to name two, in the youth set up. But I have been told that they sat in on boot room conflabs.

A new perspective might be what he needs. As for him leaving, I was foolish to suggest that. Mea Culpa, he is a legend, lets never forget, if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't be watching premier league footie. Because my lot would have won another three/four titles and we'd be bored silly.

Get some fresh blood in boot room and long may he reign.

good post imperial

**glenman** · #60 14-12-2010, 10:09 PM

I have wondered for a long time about what Pat Rice brought to the table-wonderful servant, wonderful person and was fortunate enough to meet him a long time ago, deserves a testimonial if he does indeed retire at the end of the year. However, I always felt he was put in as number two purely for continuity purposes when Wenger arrived as he was new to the country and club. Pat is number two NOT first team coach so what does he actually add to tactics/training so how much is his fault and how much is down to him when things go right? I think the time is right for specialised coaches-defence, midfield and forwards a la American Football. Keown, Bould or Adams would be my choice for defensive coach after that ? I did read a report suggesting Vieira would be joining us as a coach at the end of the year-good move, who knows-look at how shit a manager Roy Keane is.